MartinC wrote on 03/11/14 at 09:33:06:


Transpositions to and from the Trompovsky are also possible. I had an assuming opening battle against someone determined to avoid typical Tromp positions. The game went 1. d4 c5 2. d5 (now if .. Nf6 then 3. Bg5 ) d6 3. Nc3 (now again if .. Nf6, then 4. Bg5) 3 .. d6 (which I suppose is in Veresov territory)

There's also the sequence 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. Nc3 and 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. Nc3

1.d4 e6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7

Maybe White does not care to face the simple

4… Be7

but I think Black should be happy already since going to the old classical sideline is good.


5.Bxf6

Keeping it “Veresov”  with

[5.e3 0-0]

or

[5.Qd2 0-0 ]

is comfortable for black.

5...Bxf6 6.e4 c5

This has seemed to be comfortable for Black too.


I can see the point of the Veresov for players going into lines which avoid the Spanish, Sicilian, maybe some others too.

So White wants, if Black sets up for a transposition, is to head for the main lines of  (list may not be complete) –

The French

The Caro-Kann

The Pirc

The Modern

Is that the general consensus?

What PANFR said makes total sense to me.

MartinC wrote on 03/08/14 at 09:28:49:


I noticed that Hector played like that yesterday; his FM opponent replied 4...Nbd7, transposing to book stuff (after 5. e4 h6 6. Bh4 Black played 6...de, not taking up the challenge of 6...g5).  Aside from the possibility of 4...Bb4, I always figured that White would generally not care to face the simple 4...Be7.  Of course a couple of French transpositions are possible there, e.g. 5. Bxf6 Bxf6 6. e4 is an old sideline against the Classical.

MartinC wrote on 03/07/14 at 09:38:55:


Could those who studied Fischer's book of 60 Memorable Games still base their theory and practice on his game with Rossolimo and the annotations? So apart from trying to refine the tactics in that game,  what else is new? It's been established that Be3 is possible instead of Bd2, but is there anything else that can send the game in a radically different direction?

MacCutcheon from a Veresov move order

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bg5 e6 4. e4 Bb4 5. e5 h6 6. Bd2 Bxc3 7. bxc3 Ne4
or
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bg5 e6 4. e4 Bb4 5. e5 h6 6. Be3 Ne4

Bibs,

As I said, your miles may vary.

From experience, real experience, every time I face the Veresov and I end up in the French, I have seen and felt that we ended up in something only I was excited or happy to see.

Also, when we ended up in the French, I could tell I was the only one who really knew what he/she was doing.

I don't face it very often, but every time I have, that's been the case.

Cheers.

So, there is agreement -  White is practically forced to incorporate the French into his repertoire if he is going to take the Veresov seriously.

I do for sure consider the Black player being in home court advantage more often than not, to be modest.

Especially after we get into 1. d4  e6  2.Nc3 d5  3.e4  Bb4

Experience has shown that Winawer players are a special breed, like dragon players.  Very often it is their home turf.

Your miles may vary, right ?

If White is happy with the French and more happy with all the other critical Veresov lines than he is with 1.e4 not-e6 (Sicilian, Open Games, Caro etc.) then why not play the Veresov?

Many arguments about who is on "home court" strike me as silly. A Veresov player who isn't well-prepared for the French is just being irrational, and that's no fault of the opening. In fact, the Veresov isn't considered critical while the White side of the French with Nc3 is, so objectively White should be happy to reach the French when he has offered to waste his first-move nibble with 1.d4, 2.Nc3.

I would say White looks like he has no choice.  But then again, play 1.d4 for that ?   Oh, well, to each his own.

Oh, and Black is the one doing the inviting to the French, not White, normally.